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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 471 for the 29th of

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October 2017 richardsaunders here with

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you coming to you coming to you this

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week from Las Vegas Nevada

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is the happy wonderful sounds of the

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this week we're kicking off a series of

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interviews from psych on the committee

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for skeptical inquiry the convention

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here and this series of interviews will

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last hopefully over the next couple of

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weeks at least as I record this the

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convention is only halfway through I've

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snuck up to my hotel room to put

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together a skeptic zone but in the last

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couple of days I've managed to score

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some interviews with that Eugenie Scott

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Brian Dunning Briton Hermes and other

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people which I'll be playing well pretty

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soon it's so good to see so many friends

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I've met over the years coming to

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conventions and lots of new people as

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well and it's nice to have so many

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skeptics own listeners come up and say

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hello and so the first series of

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snippets and interviews coming up very

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soon and after that it's an update an

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opinion piece from The Sydney Morning

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Herald by John Dyer about the move the

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government of making in Australia to

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remove subsidies from certain forms of

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quackery like homeopathy and yes it's

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long overdue

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then to round off the show another

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another in the series of reports for mal

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globe-trotting reporter and the

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president of strain skeptics are rants

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again this week Iran catches up with

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Marius who is a believer in exorcism and

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you've been hearing over the last few

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weeks about the exorcism our

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presentation at the European skeptics

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Congress about a month ago well this

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week you can hear it from the horse's

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mouth so to speak and Iran asks why

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anyone would believe in exorcism and the

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reasons behind that belief so a show on

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the run on the road put together as I go

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but now it's time for me to open up the

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hotel room door walk to the end of the

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massively long corridor press the button

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for the elevator wait a little while

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ding get inside go down to the lobby

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walk through the casino floor is that's

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the sound go up the escalator turn right

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end up in the food court and see what I

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can find for breakfast while I do all

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that

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and come back quickly I hope you enjoy

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the skeptic zone

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saikhan 2017 the committee for skeptical

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inquiry conference or convention this

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year is being held at the Excalibur

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casino in Las Vegas very well attended

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with hundreds and hundreds of people

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here skeptics of all shapes and sizes

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and ages and walks of life coming up is

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a short clip from our good friend George

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Rob from the geologic podcast who is the

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emcee he opened proceedings with a great

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little song followed by me wandering

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around the halls interviewing people

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ending up sitting beside Britt Hermes

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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well it's in the morning the first

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morning break here at the saikhan and

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who should just walk by me it's the

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genie Scott hi TV hi there how are you

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um well it's busy here isn't it yeah I

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was going to ask Barry what the

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registration was I have a feeling it's

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higher than last year it looks like a

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lot more people in the audience when I

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was just in the big auditorium now for

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the morning session it was packed out

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there was hundreds and hundreds of

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people yeah it's um it's a good turnout

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and the morning session was great those

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are three really good speakers right I'm

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kicking off through the Richard Wiseman

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which is always a good idea yeah you

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pretty much can't go wrong with him as a

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kickoff I mean he's he'll he'll get on

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first base as we'd say in the United

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it's wonderful to be back with so many

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old friends and new friends and I really

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did enjoy the first session I mean it

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they really got off to a flying start

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and I think up next is David Gorski if

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I'm not mistaken or even big Hermes I

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don't have to look at the program but I

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think you're right and again that's

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that's not going to be too painful to

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listen to it'll be fine and you're what

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are you on oh not until tomorrow so

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today's the day I can just kick back and

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enjoy the fun and intellectual

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stimulation as it were and you seem to

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be a walking endorsement of my little

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origamis I just noticed you're wearing

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an origami biggest as he rings

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absolutely I never leave home without it

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assuming I'm wearing something in pink

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because that's the color of these

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no yeah there there really a lot of fun

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thanks TV I've been talking to you see

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you later and oh here's an editor now

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from our guerrilla skepticism on

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Wikipedia and in fact this is somebody

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you've heard on the skeptics and who do

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we have here hi it's Rob Palmer and

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people might know your voice from one of

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the guerrilla skepticism about

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promotions

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it never ends that's it and we just saw

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Susan Goodman give a talk in there about

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the whole guerrilla skepticism

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concentrating on a psychic that I'm not

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too familiar with called Tyler Henry he

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is the Hollywood medium he's a fuzzy

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sweater psychic that's the new name

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they're not they're old-growth type of

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psychics they're they're like the boy in

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the girl next door also another one is

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Monica the medium they find these people

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that are barely 20 years old who claim

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to have psychic powers that can talk to

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dead people

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and yeah so what was your role in his

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Wikipedia page well we found out he was

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going into the third season on the E

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network and his page was spiking again

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and the Wikipedia page had no criticism

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at all she came and stumbled across this

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page you would just think he could

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really talk to dead people so what we

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did after Susan cajoled some people in

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the scientific and skeptical movement

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were notable to write criticisms and

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publish them online I was then able to

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take those and put them on Tyler Henry's

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page now if you stumble on Tyler Henry's

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page or someone says hey go look at this

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this guy can talk to dead people

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there's probably no way you can leave

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that page and think he really talks to

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dead people I just you know just a

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moment ago I had a quick look at the

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page out of curiosity and the skeptical

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content is quite prominent yes we did we

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did a good job and we had a little bit

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of pushback this is a little bit

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interesting people came and fought us

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tried to take the criticisms off

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obviously Friends of Tyler maybe Tyler

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himself the most interesting one was a

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person who logged in and made a new

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Wikipedia account where the day before

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had never touched the Wikipedia with

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this account before and the username and

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I didn't even have to do anything other

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editors who know the rules of Wikipedia

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knew this was not an unbiased opinion

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and they took everything this person

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took off the page and put the criticism

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back

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that's the way it's supposed to work

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it's as you say it is never ending it's

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Susan always says she encourages people

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out there to join join the cause joined

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guerrillas kept and you're even wearing

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oh I just noticing now you got the

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guerrillas skeptics should and cap at my

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own expense but I was coming to psych on

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I had to go all out we're great to see

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you here and I hope you enjoy the rest

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of the convention thank you very much

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Richard Brian Dunning from skeptoid comm

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now I've had a chance to view your

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latest home movie curiosity well

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congratulations

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thank you very much stupendous

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beautifully shot I mean the contents

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rubbish but it's cinematically and

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musically it's brilliant

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I agree our director of photography will

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be very glad to hear that his name is

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Matt for it's known online in higher ed

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I enjoyed it immensely how's how's that

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being received it's being received

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exactly as we had hoped it would the the

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kind of the post-production marketing

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plan has been to take it to teaching

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organizations so the National Science

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Teachers Association and many other

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groups like that we're kind of getting

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it into all of their indexes of freely

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available teaching materials that

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teachers actually go to when they want

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stuff they need units they need

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materials for their classes principles

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of curiosity is there out there for them

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so although it's not something you're

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likely to find on the street or in your

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local video store it's where we think

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it's most important to be which is in

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classrooms

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yeah well take a step back it's the most

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importantly its online it is online

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certainly yeah principles of curiosity

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calm has the link to the YouTube video

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and it's there free on YouTube for

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everyone to see and how many years has

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it been since you did the the Dragons

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won the hey be dragons their dragons hey

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Vijay here be dragons you're not the

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first to call it that as that was back

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in 2008 and you know here be dragons is

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something that I did with myself and a

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video camera that I bought for the

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purpose in your family right yeah

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sometimes I would have one of my one of

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my kids or Lisa my wife would be setting

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up the camera on the tripod for me

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although most the time I did it myself

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but yeah and and the quality shows it

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was it was definitely had limited

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production value but it holds up well

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because I think the content was good and

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so four principles of curiosity I wanted

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to have the same good high quality

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content but with modern production

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values and that's exactly what we were

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able to achieve I'm super super proud of

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it and the the wonderful music by Lisa

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and is across Lea Sanders has scored

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most of my projects he is just a an

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amazingly skilled composer it's funny

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being in his in his music studio he's

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got this whole giant shelf full of BMI

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Music Awards because he works

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professionally in Hollywood most the

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times and he just adds so much to to our

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films it's funny it's going and seeing

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principles of curiosity and people will

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comment on the music that's just a

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testament to it's gonna have something

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going for it so again wakin people and

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specifically educators view that

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principles of curiosity calm that's the

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place to see the film and to download

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the free teaching materials Thank You

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Ryan thank you great homies I'm

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delighted to catch up with you here in

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Las Vegas I saw you in New York I saw

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your talk in New York which is fantastic

276
00:12:50,579 --> 00:12:47,559
and I know that you bumped into a Rance

277
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:50,589
again not so long ago in Poland was that

278
00:12:55,019 --> 00:12:53,110
no I saw him last year in Manchester at

279
00:12:56,329 --> 00:12:55,029
Kiwi named Chester QED

280
00:12:58,460 --> 00:12:56,339
I didn't make it to pollen done for it

281
00:13:00,980 --> 00:12:58,470
I'm getting all these these conferences

282
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,990
mixed up but the exciting news are is

283
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:02,639
not only that you're here speaking I

284
00:13:09,259 --> 00:13:06,870
just saw your talk this morning and it

285
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,269
was brilliant all over again the

286
00:13:13,129 --> 00:13:11,040
exciting news for our Australian

287
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:13,139
listeners is you'll be very shortly

288
00:13:17,869 --> 00:13:15,540
jetting off to Sydney to take part in

289
00:13:19,879 --> 00:13:17,879
our convention in Australia I hope

290
00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:19,889
you're feeling excited about that yeah

291
00:13:26,449 --> 00:13:22,889
absolutely feeling excited and what what

292
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:26,459
not to give it away no spoilers folks

293
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:29,730
but what can people expect great so I'll

294
00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:32,399
be covering a little bit more

295
00:13:36,739 --> 00:13:34,529
biographical information so why I got

296
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,749
into naturopathy in the first place what

297
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:38,160
was going on in my life that sort of

298
00:13:43,819 --> 00:13:41,610
primed me into believing these false

299
00:13:45,799 --> 00:13:43,829
claims that many naturopaths and the

300
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:45,809
alternative medicine industry puts out a

301
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,569
little bit of my time as a naturopathic

302
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:50,959
doctor and then why I left the field

303
00:13:59,869 --> 00:13:56,399
that's that's a bit more what should I

304
00:14:01,460 --> 00:13:59,879
say there's a bit more time covered in

305
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:01,470
your personal life than what I just saw

306
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:04,050
in your talk here but that that's an

307
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,360
interesting angle your motivations I

308
00:14:10,249 --> 00:14:08,639
suppose basically a lot of people get

309
00:14:12,259 --> 00:14:10,259
into into it because they want to do

310
00:14:15,379 --> 00:14:12,269
good right yeah definitely want to do

311
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:15,389
good and well there was a few factors

312
00:14:20,059 --> 00:14:17,970
going on I mean I initially got into it

313
00:14:21,619 --> 00:14:20,069
because I was afraid of medicine I was

314
00:14:24,110 --> 00:14:21,629
afraid of being too sick you know I

315
00:14:26,749 --> 00:14:24,120
bought into the idea that doctors don't

316
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:26,759
treat you they just give you disease

317
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:29,490
suppressing drugs and then I decided to

318
00:14:32,989 --> 00:14:31,290
become a naturopath myself because I had

319
00:14:34,129 --> 00:14:32,999
these experiences where I thought I got

320
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:34,139
better because of natural medicine

321
00:14:39,949 --> 00:14:37,980
remedies and I wanted to yeah share the

322
00:14:42,619 --> 00:14:39,959
good news do yes

323
00:14:44,509 --> 00:14:42,629
via do-gooder and and preach and so I

324
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,519
really went into this thinking that I

325
00:14:50,749 --> 00:14:46,800
was going to change the face of medicine

326
00:14:53,619 --> 00:14:50,759
through naturopathy again and out of the

327
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:53,629
purest of motivations and I think that's

328
00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:55,800
one of the things a lot of the media

329
00:15:00,800 --> 00:14:59,010
find difficult when we come along

330
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,810
and tell them that a lot of the people

331
00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:03,120
we deal with be they psychics or people

332
00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:05,190
in leaving alternative medicine a

333
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:07,700
largely doing it from a well-meaning

334
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,170
point of view and then not out the scam

335
00:15:15,439 --> 00:15:12,240
and con yeah I think that's true

336
00:15:18,019 --> 00:15:15,449
especially of naturopaths is they don't

337
00:15:20,449 --> 00:15:18,029
know what they don't know and like you

338
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:20,459
heard a little bit in my my talk just

339
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:21,120
now

340
00:15:28,670 --> 00:15:26,160
receiving a medical education so when we

341
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:28,680
are out talking to patients or lobbying

342
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,019
which not trust do a lot of and insane

343
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:33,360
things like we attend medical school we

344
00:15:38,269 --> 00:15:35,310
attend we take all the same classes as a

345
00:15:41,870 --> 00:15:38,279
medical doctor plus we learned plus

346
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:41,880
right it's med school class and not

347
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:43,740
surprised aren't not about the students

348
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:45,810
aren't saying this to deceive anyone

349
00:15:49,819 --> 00:15:48,360
they're saying it because that's what

350
00:15:51,370 --> 00:15:49,829
they're told they're really eating the

351
00:15:54,079 --> 00:15:51,380
rhetoric you know we really believe it

352
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:54,089
and if you're in that situation and

353
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:55,199
you're paying your money and you're

354
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:56,279
going through a course and there are

355
00:16:01,040 --> 00:15:57,839
other students and there's somebody up

356
00:16:03,620 --> 00:16:01,050
the top I could see why you would

357
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:03,630
perceive that as being reality I guess

358
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:05,610
that's right there's a lot of motivated

359
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:08,010
reasoning you're investing a lot of time

360
00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:10,050
it's a four-year degree and you're

361
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:12,120
investing a lot of money so my school

362
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:14,250
program matbus steer was about forty

363
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:16,680
five thousand dollars a year so that's a

364
00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:21,390
lot of good reason to believe in what

365
00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:23,699
I'm doing and to get as many people to

366
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:25,140
believe in what I'm doing as well oh

367
00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:28,500
yeah absolutely and and what did that

368
00:16:33,019 --> 00:16:30,630
demand of your time in that year how

369
00:16:35,689 --> 00:16:33,029
often were you in there studying or

370
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:35,699
doing the courses I worked really hard I

371
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,670
I worked really hard and it was I

372
00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:41,519
remember it being challenging because

373
00:16:46,819 --> 00:16:44,760
the course load was heavy because we

374
00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:46,829
were taking some of these basic science

375
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:49,470
courses I know now these basic science

376
00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:50,970
courses were not at the doctorate level

377
00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:53,880
they're definitely at a lower probably

378
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:56,430
more undergraduate level okay but in

379
00:16:59,720 --> 00:16:57,839
addition to this coursework we're also

380
00:17:00,040 --> 00:16:59,730
taking all of these alternative medicine

381
00:17:03,009 --> 00:17:00,050
core

382
00:17:04,750 --> 00:17:03,019
so I had a high credit load because I'm

383
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,760
taking homeopathy courses and

384
00:17:08,649 --> 00:17:06,559
hydrotherapy courses and memorizing

385
00:17:10,439 --> 00:17:08,659
herbs and learning about Chinese

386
00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:10,449
medicine and so there's a lot of

387
00:17:15,730 --> 00:17:13,579
esoteric things to remember like when to

388
00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:15,740
give a certain homeopathic remedy when

389
00:17:20,019 --> 00:17:17,569
to give a certain herb which acupuncture

390
00:17:22,179 --> 00:17:20,029
points you should press and when in

391
00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:22,189
addition to learning some biochemistry

392
00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:24,260
information for example or looking at

393
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:26,289
cells under a slide in histology class

394
00:17:32,289 --> 00:17:29,330
so you had a lot on your plate really

395
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:32,299
yeah a lot term not only basic science

396
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:40,130
did all this other stuff I really think

397
00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:43,640
it's an academic challenge I mean even

398
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:45,140
if he is what you were being taught

399
00:17:49,630 --> 00:17:47,090
wasn't based in reality it's still a lot

400
00:17:52,299 --> 00:17:49,640
to memorize isn't it exactly exactly a

401
00:17:54,399 --> 00:17:52,309
lot of a lot of flashcards and yeah and

402
00:17:57,970 --> 00:17:54,409
you had to pass exams that's right yeah

403
00:17:59,529 --> 00:17:57,980
so we had there's licensing exams and

404
00:18:02,769 --> 00:17:59,539
you're tested on all of this information

405
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:02,779
so in addition to learning some real

406
00:18:06,639 --> 00:18:04,760
pharmacology information for example and

407
00:18:09,310 --> 00:18:06,649
learning when to give a particular

408
00:18:12,399 --> 00:18:09,320
antibiotic and certain contraindications

409
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:12,409
for that in the same question that's

410
00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:15,440
tested me on this we're also being given

411
00:18:19,389 --> 00:18:17,480
a question about an herb and possible

412
00:18:21,159 --> 00:18:19,399
interactions with that drug whether or

413
00:18:23,289 --> 00:18:21,169
not it's real you know we don't know

414
00:18:25,899 --> 00:18:23,299
right yeah and then possibly also a

415
00:18:27,639 --> 00:18:25,909
question about which homeopathic remedy

416
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:27,649
should be considered on top of all this

417
00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:30,110
and whether or not someone should do a

418
00:18:34,659 --> 00:18:32,270
particular hydrotherapy treatment if it

419
00:18:35,649 --> 00:18:34,669
would be make the patient worse or make

420
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:35,659
the patient better which is all

421
00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:37,610
make-believe in magical anyway but you

422
00:18:41,169 --> 00:18:39,230
know we have these very complex stories

423
00:18:44,169 --> 00:18:41,179
is what I'm trying to say and how to fit

424
00:18:46,779 --> 00:18:44,179
it all in just for my benefit I'm not up

425
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:46,789
on this one exactly what's the crux of

426
00:18:53,289 --> 00:18:51,110
hydro hydrotherapy hydrotherapy so it's

427
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:53,299
the use of water therapeutically yeah

428
00:18:59,019 --> 00:18:56,230
and it includes lots of different I

429
00:19:01,899 --> 00:18:59,029
guess techniques so enemas is the

430
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:01,909
classic one but it also includes laying

431
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:04,380
hot and cold towels

432
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:08,070
patience in a variety of ways with or

433
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:10,080
without electrical stimulation no joke

434
00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:11,520
when we call this constitutional

435
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:14,700
hydrotherapy it also includes ice cold

436
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:17,940
baths or hot baths or hot baths with

437
00:19:24,140 --> 00:19:21,660
therapeutic mud peat moss in it yeah so

438
00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:24,150
far it's not sounding too bad I mean you

439
00:19:28,610 --> 00:19:26,100
live in Germany I used to live in

440
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:28,620
Germany you've undoubtedly gone along to

441
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:30,270
the the saunas and the hot tubs in there

442
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:32,850
and I used to enjoy that no it certainly

443
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:36,090
feels good but it's not going to it's

444
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:42,000
not going to cure HIV I miss those days

445
00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:44,310
because I used to remember the very

446
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:46,920
first time after the sauna I went into

447
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:50,580
the ice the little ice cool yeah and I I

448
00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:53,940
thought what am i doing but when I got

449
00:20:01,340 --> 00:19:57,020
in I could stand it from for you know a

450
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:01,350
decent length of time before it became

451
00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:03,060
unbearable but it's quite an experience

452
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:04,470
if you haven't done it folks

453
00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:07,860
I can recommend yeah it's it's it's fun

454
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:10,230
socially - I have to admit the problem

455
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:12,330
is is that natural paths integrate these

456
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:14,970
types of therapies into the treatment

457
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:19,230
for very serious diseases so for example

458
00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:20,730
when I was in school at bestir the

459
00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:22,860
teaching clinic there integrated these

460
00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:25,140
hydrotherapy treatments in for patients

461
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:28,800
with HIV and AIDS as a way to boost this

462
00:20:33,170 --> 00:20:31,260
person's okay immune system just to make

463
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:33,180
them comfortable just to actually do

464
00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:35,190
something yeah - actually they thought

465
00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:36,840
it would somehow increase their t-cell

466
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:39,720
count or you know increase the immune

467
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:42,090
system function or reduce opportunistic

468
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:44,850
infections or I'm not exactly sure what

469
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:46,710
the the byline is but the point is that

470
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:48,090
these very sick patients were getting

471
00:20:52,420 --> 00:20:49,650
these treatments for therapeutic

472
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:52,430
purposes it sounds like salt therapy

473
00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:55,260
yeah yeah I mean there's numerous

474
00:20:59,960 --> 00:20:56,310
examples yeah

475
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,970
and and the problem is of course I mean

476
00:21:02,510 --> 00:21:01,260
there's multiple problems you have sick

477
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:02,520
patients spending money on useless

478
00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:05,700
treatment you have very sick patients

479
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:07,740
and investing their time and their

480
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:09,900
energy perhaps into treatments that

481
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:12,210
don't work maybe it can make them worse

482
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,840
for example or maybe they think

483
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:17,520
psychologically or emotionally that

484
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:18,450
they're getting better and then they

485
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:20,490
start to go off of their conventional

486
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:22,890
medications to my interview Dalton and

487
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:24,450
Mark well that's the story we've heard

488
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:26,490
many times before folks that's just a

489
00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:29,220
flavor just a taste to whet your

490
00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:31,140
appetite of what you can expect to see

491
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:33,300
when you come to the the Estonian

492
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:34,980
skeptics convention in November in

493
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:38,310
Sydney with one of our feature guests

494
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:40,110
Britt homies Britt thank you very much

495
00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:43,310
for your time and I look forward to

496
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,950
working with you in a two days and being

497
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:48,000
on the panel with you in two days

498
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:49,950
looking forward to that and of course I

499
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:51,210
look forward to being part of the

500
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:53,250
welcoming committee when you arrive in

501
00:22:01,040 --> 00:21:53,970
Sydney

502
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:01,050
thank you so much coming up over the

503
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:02,850
next few weeks more in the series of

504
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:06,810
interviews from psych on 2017 from Las

505
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:29,260
[Music]

506
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:31,640
astronomy cast it takes a facts based

507
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:33,690
journey through the cosmos as it offers

508
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:35,400
listeners weekly discussions on

509
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:38,100
astronomical topics ranging from planets

510
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,950
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

511
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:43,440
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela Gay

512
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:44,940
of Southern Illinois University

513
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:46,980
Edwardsville this show brings the

514
00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:48,840
questions of an avid astronomy lover

515
00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:51,300
directly to an astronomer together

516
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:53,400
Fraser and I explore what is known and

517
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:54,930
being discovered about the universe

518
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,690
around us join us each week as we take a

519
00:23:20,750 --> 00:22:59,520
facts based journey through the cosmos

520
00:23:23,150 --> 00:23:20,760
at astronomy cast calm now last week we

521
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:23,160
brought you the story of how the federal

522
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:25,740
government in Australia is cracking down

523
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:28,770
on subsidies to rebates for private

524
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,810
health when it comes to various

525
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:33,600
alternative therapies you might call

526
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:37,890
quackery and this update or this opinion

527
00:23:42,050 --> 00:23:39,750
piece a comment comes to us via The

528
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:42,060
Sydney Morning Herald s MH dot-com today

529
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:45,450
you written on October the 21st by John

530
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:48,510
Dwyer Australian patients vulnerable to

531
00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:52,530
quacks we live in the most scientific of

532
00:23:56,780 --> 00:23:55,350
ages where it is more than reasonable to

533
00:23:59,120 --> 00:23:56,790
expect that modern health care

534
00:24:01,550 --> 00:23:59,130
strategies will be underpinned by

535
00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:01,560
credible scientific evidence for their

536
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:05,340
clinical effectiveness however we find

537
00:24:11,270 --> 00:24:08,370
flourishing pseudo scientific concepts

538
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:11,280
and practices that are an affront to our

539
00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:13,740
detailed knowledge of how our bodies

540
00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:18,060
function in health and disease there are

541
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:20,340
no connections between parts of the iris

542
00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:21,510
of one's eye

543
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:24,780
and other organs iridology nor

544
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:27,360
anatomical areas of the soles of our

545
00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:30,980
feet with such connections reflexology

546
00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:34,070
nor energy fields singling ill health

547
00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:36,870
radiating from our bodies and subject to

548
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:39,480
correction by quote healing touch and

549
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:42,240
quote therapists it was encouraging

550
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:44,310
therefore to learn last week that

551
00:24:49,910 --> 00:24:47,100
Minister Greg Hunt had reversed a poor

552
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,920
decision by his predecessor and accepted

553
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:51,600
the findings of our National Health and

554
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:53,580
Medical Research Council that there is

555
00:24:59,090 --> 00:24:56,070
no evidence to support the efficacy of

556
00:25:01,340 --> 00:24:59,100
any of these 17 most popular quote

557
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:01,350
alternative end quote therapies the

558
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:02,760
provision of these ineffective

559
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:04,890
approaches will no longer be subsidized

560
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:07,950
by taxpayers dollars via the subsidy to

561
00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:10,260
private health insurers that covers such

562
00:25:15,650 --> 00:25:12,750
services unfortunately this is only

563
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:15,660
tackling the tip of the health fraud

564
00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:19,230
iceberg take for example the problems

565
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:21,000
the Australian health practitioner

566
00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:23,250
regulatory agency has in protecting

567
00:25:28,670 --> 00:25:25,830
consumers from the fraudulent activities

568
00:25:31,550 --> 00:25:28,680
of many chiropractors who were recently

569
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:31,560
added to the AHPRA family along with

570
00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:33,570
osteopaths and traditional Chinese

571
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:37,260
medicine practitioners TCM with the

572
00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:39,360
respectability associated with

573
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:41,310
registration many chiropractors set

574
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:43,920
about becoming providers of treatments

575
00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:46,020
for a wide range of conditions far

576
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:47,820
beyond the remit of traditional

577
00:25:52,670 --> 00:25:50,640
chiropractic there is a soft evidence

578
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:52,680
base for chiropractic treatment of

579
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:55,290
musculoskeletal problems with backs and

580
00:26:00,590 --> 00:25:57,720
necks but none for the extended role

581
00:26:02,090 --> 00:26:00,600
many have pursued chiropractic websites

582
00:26:05,090 --> 00:26:02,100
have been advertising claims for

583
00:26:08,210 --> 00:26:05,100
chiropractic management for more than 60

584
00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:08,220
non musculoskeletal conditions these

585
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:10,980
include autism asthma developmental

586
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,710
disorders colic bedwetting ear

587
00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:15,840
infections allergies and even the

588
00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:18,540
ability to turn a breech baby something

589
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:21,180
an obstetrician would only attempt in a

590
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:23,700
hospital setting to justify these claims

591
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:25,710
they insist that there is running up and

592
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:28,710
down the spinal column and quote innate

593
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:32,400
energy in quote invisible the integrity

594
00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:33,840
of which is essential for whole body

595
00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:35,190
health

596
00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:38,760
minor distortions of the spine invisible

597
00:26:45,070 --> 00:26:41,820
on x-ray or MRI which they call quote

598
00:26:47,150 --> 00:26:45,080
subluxation unquote disturb this energy

599
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:47,160
chiropractors claim that they can often

600
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:49,410
correct such problems by making small

601
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:52,080
quote adjustments and quote to the spine

602
00:26:57,260 --> 00:26:55,050
the care of babies children and pregnant

603
00:26:59,360 --> 00:26:57,270
women is targeted with the pseudoscience

604
00:27:02,300 --> 00:26:59,370
one feel sorry for the chiropractors

605
00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:02,310
that stick to evidence-based care the

606
00:27:07,610 --> 00:27:04,440
Friends of Science in medicine has

607
00:27:10,670 --> 00:27:07,620
reported more than 1,200 chiropractors

608
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:10,680
making such claims to the AHPRA we have

609
00:27:14,660 --> 00:27:12,960
worked with the AHPRA and the

610
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:14,670
chiropractic Board of Australia to

611
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:18,270
address this problem recently AHPRA has

612
00:27:24,790 --> 00:27:21,990
been firm more proactive but there is a

613
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:24,800
major weakness in the regulatory set up

614
00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:27,780
boards Canon do remind practitioners

615
00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:29,640
that all advertising must be quote

616
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:32,160
evidence-based unquote and under the

617
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:34,350
national law breaches can involve a

618
00:27:38,180 --> 00:27:35,490
range of penalties

619
00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:38,190
however AHPRA does not have the

620
00:27:42,620 --> 00:27:39,900
authority to limit the scope of practice

621
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:42,630
of registrants in other words the

622
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:45,480
regulator can regulate what you say but

623
00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:48,570
what you do would that pass the pub

624
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:50,700
tests similar problems we've seen our

625
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:53,190
scientific concepts justifying a broad

626
00:27:59,420 --> 00:27:55,970
range of treatments beset Osteopathy and

627
00:28:00,170 --> 00:27:59,430
TMC many other significant problems need

628
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:00,180
attention

629
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:02,330
the therapeutics Goods Administration

630
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:05,010
responsible for ensuring the safety and

631
00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:06,840
quality of medicines and the medical

632
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:09,960
devices we use also has a poor record of

633
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:12,720
consumer protection providers must keep

634
00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:15,300
evidence that supports their claims and

635
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:19,860
on a random basis audits by the TGA find

636
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:21,960
that 80% of the time there is no such

637
00:28:27,010 --> 00:28:24,690
evidence the industry is involved of

638
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:27,020
lobbied government for the sector to

639
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:30,270
self-regulate and have the process of

640
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:32,250
vetting advertisements for accuracy

641
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:35,010
before publication scrapped then there

642
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:36,690
are the activities of unregistered

643
00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:38,790
health practitioners the fraudulent

644
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,920
activity of too many of my fellow

645
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:43,200
doctors offering anything but adequate

646
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:45,690
and evidence-based care of impotence

647
00:28:51,139 --> 00:28:48,659
obesity and hormone deficiency with

648
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:51,149
some offering useless quote collation

649
00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:52,799
therapy unquote for a range of

650
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:55,529
conditions that full of discussion would

651
00:28:59,060 --> 00:28:57,450
look at the distressing abandonment of

652
00:29:01,249 --> 00:28:59,070
professionalism in favor of

653
00:29:04,219 --> 00:29:01,259
commercialism by so many of our

654
00:29:06,499 --> 00:29:04,229
pharmacists and the unconscionable false

655
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:06,509
advertising by major vitamin supplement

656
00:29:10,639 --> 00:29:08,340
manufacturers that have Australians

657
00:29:12,769 --> 00:29:10,649
believing that a daily intake of their

658
00:29:16,009 --> 00:29:12,779
products protects one from an unhealthy

659
00:29:18,889 --> 00:29:16,019
lifestyle adequate consumer protection

660
00:29:21,469 --> 00:29:18,899
should focus on prevention in Australia

661
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:21,479
yet all too often involves action after

662
00:29:26,089 --> 00:29:24,090
a harmful event Australian consumers are

663
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:26,099
particularly vulnerable as we have one

664
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:27,960
of the lowest rates of adequate health

665
00:29:33,739 --> 00:29:31,950
literacy in the OECD only 40 percent of

666
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:33,749
us have an adequate knowledge of how our

667
00:29:39,379 --> 00:29:36,809
bodies work the relationship between

668
00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:39,389
lifestyle factors and illness and how to

669
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:41,159
get the most out of the evidence-based

670
00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:43,769
health system knowledge breeds the

671
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:45,929
informed scepticism that can minimise

672
00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:48,210
harm from health care fraud the single

673
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:49,590
most obvious problem with our health

674
00:29:57,519 --> 00:29:52,129
system is the failure to adequately

675
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,070
John Dwyer is emeritus professor of

676
00:30:06,409 --> 00:30:03,840
medicine at UNSW and president of

677
00:30:08,779 --> 00:30:06,419
friends of science and medicine and that

678
00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:08,789
a comment piece comes to us from The

679
00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:10,409
Sydney Morning Herald published on the

680
00:30:37,169 --> 00:30:14,300
21st of October s MH comm dot a you

681
00:30:39,629 --> 00:30:37,179
[Music]

682
00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:39,639
the New Zealand skeptics conference me

683
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:41,349
is happening on the weekend of the 24th

684
00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:44,480
to the 26th of November in Wellington

685
00:30:48,719 --> 00:30:45,929
[Music]

686
00:30:51,719 --> 00:30:48,729
the weekend starts on Friday evening

687
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:51,729
with a pub quiz all about skepticism and

688
00:30:54,749 --> 00:30:54,129
is open for anybody registered for the

689
00:30:56,369 --> 00:30:54,759
conference

690
00:30:58,169 --> 00:30:56,379
the New Zealand skeptics have a great

691
00:31:00,269 --> 00:30:58,179
lineup for the conference both on

692
00:31:03,419 --> 00:31:00,279
Saturday and Sunday they're especially

693
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:03,429
excited to have Cara Santa Maria from

694
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:04,690
the skeptics guide to the universe

695
00:31:10,099 --> 00:31:07,570
podcast and Britt Hermes ex naturopath

696
00:31:13,139 --> 00:31:10,109
who now blogs for science-based medicine

697
00:31:15,299 --> 00:31:13,149
joining them this year from overseas but

698
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:15,309
they also have some fascinating locals

699
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:21,560
you can see a list of the current lineup

700
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:23,970
of speakers by visiting the conference

701
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:27,750
website conference dot sceptics dot NZ

702
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,330
and tickets are very reasonably priced

703
00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:32,880
and available for the entire weekend or

704
00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:35,670
just one day on Saturday evening the

705
00:31:40,610 --> 00:31:37,470
ends that skeptics are hosting a dinner

706
00:31:42,530 --> 00:31:40,620
separate registration required where you

707
00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:42,540
can chill out with fellow skeptics chat

708
00:31:49,580 --> 00:31:45,300
with the speakers and enjoy some weird

709
00:31:51,410 --> 00:31:49,590
and wonderful entertainment now for that

710
00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:51,420
sounds like fun please head to the

711
00:32:10,430 --> 00:31:54,270
website and book your ticket conference

712
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:10,440
dot skeptics dot NZ let's all take this

713
00:32:17,770 --> 00:32:13,800
with a grain of salt he's around second

714
00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:22,010
so I'm here with my yoke from Poland and

715
00:32:29,630 --> 00:32:25,800
I ask you to mention your name because I

716
00:32:31,670 --> 00:32:29,640
can't pronounce it - you gave it talk

717
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:31,680
yesterday and participated in a panel in

718
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:34,530
a segment of this convention that is

719
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:38,010
about it was about exorcism you know now

720
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:40,860
you represented the position that

721
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,500
supports exorcism and believe in demonic

722
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,840
possession do I represent you you're

723
00:32:51,530 --> 00:32:48,240
Asian correctly let's say almost

724
00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:51,540
correctly because what I let's say

725
00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:53,430
represent are the exorcism within the

726
00:32:57,290 --> 00:32:55,500
Catholic Church of course yeah so

727
00:32:59,960 --> 00:32:57,300
because the exorcism can be performed

728
00:33:02,770 --> 00:32:59,970
also in other religions in other forms

729
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:02,780
so what I can take let's say

730
00:33:07,550 --> 00:33:05,910
responsibility and to some extent

731
00:33:10,670 --> 00:33:07,560
intellectual responsibilities the

732
00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:10,680
exorcism in the Catholic Church okay and

733
00:33:15,380 --> 00:33:13,980
can you maybe try to explain you why

734
00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:15,390
your position I mean you gave a talk

735
00:33:18,860 --> 00:33:17,190
about it yesterday but maybe if you

736
00:33:25,149 --> 00:33:18,870
could summarize the main points from you

737
00:33:29,070 --> 00:33:25,159
talk for our listeners so axial exorcism

738
00:33:32,349 --> 00:33:29,080
has been conducted for centuries or

739
00:33:36,129 --> 00:33:32,359
thousands of years probably so at least

740
00:33:38,649 --> 00:33:36,139
you can you can read about exorcism in

741
00:33:41,739 --> 00:33:38,659
the New Testament that it was conducted

742
00:33:45,729 --> 00:33:41,749
by Jesus Christ and Jesus crisis is God

743
00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:45,739
in Catholicism so and basically the

744
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:49,720
practice of exorcism is based on the

745
00:33:56,469 --> 00:33:52,369
existence of the devil so this is an

746
00:34:01,629 --> 00:33:56,479
angel evil spiritual intelligent angel

747
00:34:06,129 --> 00:34:01,639
that can torment or in extreme case

748
00:34:09,819 --> 00:34:06,139
possess people and this evil spiritual

749
00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:09,829
being do not does not obey physics law

750
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:12,950
so you cannot investigate that by means

751
00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:17,270
of experimental science but from this

752
00:34:21,549 --> 00:34:19,250
you cannot conclude it doesn't exist and

753
00:34:25,149 --> 00:34:21,559
in my presentation I have shown that

754
00:34:27,549 --> 00:34:25,159
there are some some strange things that

755
00:34:30,329 --> 00:34:27,559
happens during exorcism that in my

756
00:34:33,029 --> 00:34:30,339
opinion cannot be explained within the

757
00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:33,039
materialistic or let's say atheistic

758
00:34:40,349 --> 00:34:36,020
paradigm like for example the people

759
00:34:44,289 --> 00:34:40,359
that are possessed can speak languages

760
00:34:47,049 --> 00:34:44,299
with the Exorcist that have never

761
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:47,059
learned or this can be also some ancient

762
00:34:53,919 --> 00:34:50,750
languages this is one of the phenomena

763
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:53,929
another one can be that there is there

764
00:35:03,880 --> 00:34:57,170
are some materializations for example

765
00:35:09,220 --> 00:35:03,890
that people spit nails or screws or

766
00:35:12,609 --> 00:35:09,230
pieces of glass even some crabs fishes

767
00:35:17,049 --> 00:35:12,619
and stuff like this so it's really

768
00:35:19,269 --> 00:35:17,059
difficult I think to to explain this and

769
00:35:23,319 --> 00:35:19,279
this is not a single case that has had

770
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:23,329
many cases over the world so it is known

771
00:35:27,849 --> 00:35:25,609
among exercies and the Catholic Church

772
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:27,859
that something like this happens also

773
00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:31,730
people that are possessed sometimes have

774
00:35:38,030 --> 00:35:33,420
the ability to

775
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:38,040
- that they know some secrets of the

776
00:35:42,590 --> 00:35:40,110
person that take part in the exorcism

777
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:42,600
that is not possible that the person

778
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:45,570
knows it because it was not possible to

779
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:49,110
obtain such such knowledge in some cases

780
00:35:56,270 --> 00:35:53,130
some exhaust is also observed levitation

781
00:35:59,540 --> 00:35:56,280
of a person so I do not believe in

782
00:36:02,060 --> 00:35:59,550
paranormal abilities of human being

783
00:36:06,109 --> 00:36:02,070
so my explanation is that it is due to

784
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:06,119
the intelligent evil spiritual beings

785
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:09,690
that have a certain power certain power

786
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,510
over the matter or over the human body

787
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:14,640
and this is the explanation why it is

788
00:36:20,090 --> 00:36:17,490
possible that he can disperse on or

789
00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:20,100
actually this evil being speak this

790
00:36:26,540 --> 00:36:23,430
languages or make this levitation and so

791
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:26,550
on okay so you actually gave an example

792
00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:28,110
yesterday specifically with regards to

793
00:36:31,490 --> 00:36:29,460
somebody falling off a bridge so you

794
00:36:33,830 --> 00:36:31,500
want you were trying to explain why it

795
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:33,840
isn't actually breaking of the laws of

796
00:36:38,450 --> 00:36:35,369
physics yes can you give that example

797
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:38,460
yes because we talked yesterday about

798
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:40,859
miracles where the miracles are possible

799
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:44,490
normally we look as scientists and also

800
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:47,850
as believers for natural causes and this

801
00:36:58,430 --> 00:36:53,790
is in 99% common 999 this is the natural

802
00:37:00,440 --> 00:36:58,440
causes but God created the laws of

803
00:37:04,190 --> 00:37:00,450
physics so he can for some good reason

804
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:04,200
suspend them and then it can let's say

805
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:07,619
break the law but it can be like for

806
00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:09,810
example somebody drops from from a

807
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:12,060
bridge and then you see that it stops

808
00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:14,520
one meter over the bridge so it doesn't

809
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:19,020
mean that the laws of physics are broken

810
00:37:24,859 --> 00:37:22,320
because it could be like that an angel

811
00:37:27,550 --> 00:37:24,869
just stops this guy's so it means that

812
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:27,560
another force that is opposite to the

813
00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:30,570
gravity is that is that this higher

814
00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:33,420
stronger so basically what you're saying

815
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:34,980
is it's not the laws of physics that are

816
00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:35,970
broken it's just something that's

817
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:37,470
outside of the laws of physics that's

818
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:39,210
acting that's basically this is one

819
00:37:43,220 --> 00:37:40,710
possibility but not all so it's possible

820
00:37:44,270 --> 00:37:43,230
that that the laws of physics are

821
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:44,280
suspended

822
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:45,390
for example there was this example

823
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:46,980
whether it's possible whether you

824
00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:49,500
believe that Jesus walked on water so

825
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:51,780
for me this is not the problem because

826
00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:53,940
if he's got then he can walk on guess I

827
00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:55,950
lost Ellie because I grew up right next

828
00:37:59,570 --> 00:37:58,200
to where Jesus supposedly walked on the

829
00:38:01,370 --> 00:37:59,580
water and earlier that Jordan River is

830
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:01,380
so shallow there that you can just walk

831
00:38:09,730 --> 00:38:03,450
on the water without without your shoes

832
00:38:13,490 --> 00:38:09,740
getting completely wet the you you got

833
00:38:15,110 --> 00:38:13,500
obviously that's not your position is

834
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:15,120
not the prevailing position in this room

835
00:38:18,770 --> 00:38:16,770
I think you probably knew that that

836
00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:18,780
course yeah that was not a surprise to

837
00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:19,020
you

838
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:23,700
I'll give some examples of the

839
00:38:28,070 --> 00:38:24,720
objections you got and I was just

840
00:38:31,220 --> 00:38:28,080
wondering if you could respond to them

841
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:31,230
for for our record so for example one of

842
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:33,180
the things that we said was that that

843
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:37,200
people said was that everything can be

844
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:40,560
tested in some way so the so test you

845
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,240
don't necessarily need to know the

846
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:43,920
explanation is in order to test that the

847
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:47,040
explanation is there now the bottom

848
00:38:53,570 --> 00:38:50,720
depth the point is that science science

849
00:38:56,330 --> 00:38:53,580
experimental science has an assumption

850
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:56,340
and this assumption assumption we know

851
00:39:00,020 --> 00:38:57,770
is something that is not proved

852
00:39:03,140 --> 00:39:00,030
assumption in science and precursor

853
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:03,150
science is that all the phenomena have

854
00:39:08,410 --> 00:39:05,910
natural causes so if you investigate

855
00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:08,420
something using scientific methods

856
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:11,750
lasers and so on then you always look

857
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:16,200
for natural causes and this is this is

858
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:19,920
also because the tools Wizards tools are

859
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:23,930
limited to investigate only matter only

860
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,440
material samples whatever this so but it

861
00:39:34,580 --> 00:39:30,240
is possible from so from this you cannot

862
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:34,590
conclude that non material objects do

863
00:39:44,570 --> 00:39:40,710
not exist okay so if I claim that in

864
00:39:46,850 --> 00:39:44,580
exorcism there is an evil spiritual

865
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:46,860
being that not obey laws of physics and

866
00:39:52,990 --> 00:39:49,830
is not Material you are not able in

867
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:53,000
experimental science to investigate it

868
00:39:59,210 --> 00:39:56,520
but you can investigate the effect

869
00:40:02,810 --> 00:39:59,220
that he has on matter is all human

870
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:02,820
beings so you see this there is

871
00:40:07,220 --> 00:40:05,640
limitations in science due to the

872
00:40:09,380 --> 00:40:07,230
assumption and the research tours okay

873
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:09,390
so I would like to follow that up with

874
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:10,980
something I mean yesterday I asked you a

875
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:12,090
question

876
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:13,740
you know what I'll ask you again now and

877
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:15,570
you could respond my question was that I

878
00:40:18,740 --> 00:40:17,370
can think of several lines of evidence

879
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:18,750
that would lead me to believe that

880
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:22,170
demonic possession as described in the

881
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,810
movie that we saw yesterday and and as

882
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:26,400
the Catholic Church generally believes

883
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:29,850
and an exorcisms work so you know

884
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:32,160
there's there's a reasonably it is large

885
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:36,150
but limited set of of evidence or lines

886
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:37,890
of evidence that would convince me that

887
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:39,780
it actually is happening and my question

888
00:40:45,290 --> 00:40:42,210
to you was what would make what would

889
00:40:48,350 --> 00:40:45,300
convince you that it doesn't exist that

890
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:48,360
it doesn't work this is actually the

891
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:52,770
difficult because then because of the

892
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,070
limitation of scientific methods yes I

893
00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,520
specifically corrected myself utterly

894
00:41:03,580 --> 00:41:01,800
you said that yesterday we're repeating

895
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:03,590
what happened yesterday I said well

896
00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:07,200
let's just not talk about you know let's

897
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:08,580
not limit ourselves to scientific

898
00:41:11,330 --> 00:41:10,110
evidence what is there something that

899
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:11,340
would convince you that it's not

900
00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:14,730
actually true

901
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:18,360
so I think I responded that I think I

902
00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:20,310
don't know yet how's it had to answer

903
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:23,160
actually this question because of course

904
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:27,450
the existence of evil is based on on

905
00:41:33,890 --> 00:41:31,890
faith because yeah you cannot

906
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:33,900
investigate this so you cannot have like

907
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:36,780
a scientific proof so it is based on on

908
00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:40,740
on faith and I yeah I don't know how to

909
00:41:44,420 --> 00:41:43,260
answer this question oh yeah I'm not

910
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:44,430
trying to put you in a spot I'm

911
00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:46,410
generally interested in you in your

912
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:48,420
approach this the other thing I wanted

913
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:51,450
to know was you say that it cannot be

914
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:54,330
investigated you put you put quite a lot

915
00:41:59,180 --> 00:41:57,660
of value in in evidence perhaps the way

916
00:42:00,620 --> 00:41:59,190
I look at evidence in the way you look

917
00:42:03,410 --> 00:42:00,630
at evidence is not exactly the same for

918
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:03,420
example you you use a lot of evidence

919
00:42:10,570 --> 00:42:06,960
from witnesses as reliably say because

920
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:10,580
it's accumulated it has you take it as

921
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,410
good evidence whereas I probably would

922
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:16,560
put less faith in it however you still

923
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:18,420
are looking for evidence you don't

924
00:42:23,930 --> 00:42:21,780
simply say okay I have faith that's just

925
00:42:25,490 --> 00:42:23,940
out there I was taught and that's it but

926
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:25,500
I'm just wondering but it seems to me

927
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:26,730
like there's a bit of a contradiction

928
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:30,110
here that in one say in one way you say

929
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:34,560
I have faith yeah it's based on my the

930
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:38,520
reason I think this is true is based on

931
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:41,130
a very essential level on faith on the

932
00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:43,260
other hand you do rely on evidence is

933
00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:46,260
the evidence only to convince others or

934
00:42:52,580 --> 00:42:47,880
is it also for yourself

935
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:52,590
I think the evidence is that the cases

936
00:42:55,940 --> 00:42:53,910
are not single so there are many

937
00:42:59,230 --> 00:42:55,950
exorcists over the world that have

938
00:43:05,970 --> 00:42:59,240
noticed such regularities that occur

939
00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:05,980
during exorcisms so I think you have to

940
00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:08,320
you have to claim that all of the people

941
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:10,780
are dishonest and today all the

942
00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:12,250
exorcists during the centuries were

943
00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:17,140
dishonest and so on of course some

944
00:43:21,540 --> 00:43:19,540
people could say that it doesn't

945
00:43:24,570 --> 00:43:21,550
convince me I would like to investigate

946
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:24,580
more or maybe good-b during the exorcism

947
00:43:30,990 --> 00:43:27,790
or during thousands of exorcism okay I

948
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:31,000
haven't been because this is not my role

949
00:43:37,859 --> 00:43:35,890
I I feel fate in the honesty that the

950
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:37,869
people the exorcists in the Catholic

951
00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:40,570
Church are honest I'm talking only about

952
00:43:44,070 --> 00:43:42,550
the the exhaustion Catholic Church

953
00:43:44,670 --> 00:43:44,080
because as I said they do not take any

954
00:43:47,250 --> 00:43:44,680
money

955
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:47,260
they must be nominated by a bishop so

956
00:43:52,380 --> 00:43:49,570
they cannot make like a Exorcist career

957
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:52,390
or something like this so they do not

958
00:44:00,599 --> 00:43:56,560
have in general any any purpose to to

959
00:44:01,950 --> 00:44:00,609
cheat I think I understand that it just

960
00:44:04,290 --> 00:44:01,960
I think my question is was more about

961
00:44:06,570 --> 00:44:04,300
your attitude to evidence not in terms

962
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:06,580
of what you accept and don't accept but

963
00:44:10,140 --> 00:44:08,380
the need for evidence yeah

964
00:44:12,270 --> 00:44:10,150
so whether you feel that you need do you

965
00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:12,280
feel that you need that evidence or is

966
00:44:17,849 --> 00:44:15,550
it is your faith in God and in good and

967
00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:17,859
evil in the way in the biblical

968
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:19,720
description is that enough for you

969
00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:22,180
no this is enough so I mean in the in

970
00:44:30,090 --> 00:44:26,200
the sense that I am convinced that my my

971
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:30,100
belief is intellectually satisfying so

972
00:44:34,020 --> 00:44:32,650
it's that my faith is rational and

973
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:34,030
doesn't mean that it can be proved

974
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:35,650
scientifically because it cannot because

975
00:44:44,190 --> 00:44:40,570
it's faith but anyway in my opinion I'm

976
00:44:47,849 --> 00:44:44,200
very convinced that it is this is

977
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:47,859
rational and coherent faith so it

978
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:49,930
doesn't for example contradict with

979
00:44:56,490 --> 00:44:54,490
science so I can so there are this my

980
00:44:59,880 --> 00:44:56,500
fate no conflict between my faith and

981
00:45:01,980 --> 00:44:59,890
the scientific world let's say and yeah

982
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:01,990
and for example other arguments are that

983
00:45:07,590 --> 00:45:05,080
we have this beautiful universe you have

984
00:45:10,770 --> 00:45:07,600
something and we know that matter or

985
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:10,780
human beings cannot create matter I mean

986
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,850
out of nothing because if you have

987
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:14,800
matter and they'll convert to another

988
00:45:19,859 --> 00:45:17,680
matter this is not creation from ex

989
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:19,869
nihilo from nothing right so the

990
00:45:24,450 --> 00:45:22,410
question is where is this universe from

991
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:24,460
so there is no God

992
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:27,730
so a being that has the power to create

993
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:30,880
something out of nothing and doesn't

994
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:33,250
need any creation because this must be

995
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:35,140
the first cause let's say then if you

996
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:39,280
don't have this then for me that it's

997
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:43,390
hard to believe that they exist that the

998
00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:46,480
universe is something that is necessary

999
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:49,119
to be right because we can imagine that

1000
00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:52,000
the universe couldn't be right I'm sure

1001
00:45:59,420 --> 00:45:54,340
so if there is then where is it from

1002
00:46:03,320 --> 00:45:59,430
right yep because it's for me it's not

1003
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:03,330
possible to take the position that it is

1004
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:06,400
eternal doesn't need any cause to exist

1005
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,300
and it it was always there what was what

1006
00:46:14,460 --> 00:46:12,160
about God then I mean that is the

1007
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:14,470
question exactly because because what we

1008
00:46:17,099 --> 00:46:16,030
believe I mean Catholics believe in

1009
00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:17,109
uncreated God

1010
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:19,150
so like the very nature of God is the

1011
00:46:24,359 --> 00:46:21,520
existence and the power to give

1012
00:46:26,310 --> 00:46:24,369
existence to something else so so this

1013
00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:26,320
is this is Rati what also the big bang

1014
00:46:30,570 --> 00:46:28,150
theory is essentially the same things

1015
00:46:31,830 --> 00:46:30,580
existed like that there's no moment of

1016
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,840
creation it's just a moment that

1017
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:34,720
something specific started yeah but even

1018
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:37,090
if you assume even if you assume that

1019
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:40,600
the universe didn't have any beginning

1020
00:46:44,849 --> 00:46:43,119
in time so ever it was little null again

1021
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:44,859
yeah but it had but even if it's

1022
00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:46,960
internal in time anyway you need

1023
00:46:48,980 --> 00:46:48,790
explanation about the original because

1024
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:48,990
the

1025
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,400
let us say that tip to me it sounds like

1026
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:55,440
basically what you're saying is God has

1027
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,380
an exemption you know and what God has

1028
00:47:02,060 --> 00:47:00,240
an exemption you don't like God doesn't

1029
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:02,070
need to worry about this chain of

1030
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:04,140
causality exactly because this is the

1031
00:47:08,270 --> 00:47:05,700
first but it's a definitional thing yes

1032
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:08,280
yeah okay one last question I would like

1033
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:11,270
to ask you is with regards to

1034
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:13,800
specifically Catholicism you're

1035
00:47:18,260 --> 00:47:16,110
obviously a man of faith you you it's

1036
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:18,270
here to believe yesterday you were asked

1037
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,810
about what if it's you know okay it's

1038
00:47:27,140 --> 00:47:23,760
the pro no let's assume the paranormal

1039
00:47:29,900 --> 00:47:27,150
exists however it's not an angel of God

1040
00:47:31,820 --> 00:47:29,910
that does this it's it's a Jew Jew from

1041
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:31,830
Kenya that you know that holds the

1042
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:35,970
person above the water I'm assuming that

1043
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:37,530
you've put your mind to this to this

1044
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:39,660
question I'm just wondering how you

1045
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:40,650
would respond to it

1046
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:42,930
what is it what if what what is it that

1047
00:47:48,020 --> 00:47:46,170
makes Catholicism special in there if we

1048
00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:48,030
if we assume that the parable exists

1049
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:49,980
what is it that makes pathology seem

1050
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:50,400
special

1051
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:51,780
apart from the fact that you grow up in

1052
00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:54,150
that kind of culture and in that kind of

1053
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:56,430
faith and that's what you were raised to

1054
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:01,870
yeah I was raised but in this my free

1055
00:48:06,430 --> 00:48:04,490
will that I remain Catholic if like I

1056
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:06,440
could I could I could couldn't be I

1057
00:48:14,980 --> 00:48:09,410
could get rid of of my faith let's say

1058
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:14,990
and change so but as I yeah so but but

1059
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:16,490
this is basically what I what I answered

1060
00:48:21,010 --> 00:48:18,650
already I think that that intellectually

1061
00:48:23,890 --> 00:48:21,020
my faith discourse is coherent is

1062
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:23,900
rational and this coherent with science

1063
00:48:31,450 --> 00:48:27,590
so so this is these are the arguments

1064
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:31,460
that are most important for me and also

1065
00:48:36,310 --> 00:48:33,650
the the origin of the of the universe of

1066
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:36,320
everything actually off of why there is

1067
00:48:41,710 --> 00:48:38,570
not a something than nothing right and

1068
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:41,720
what is the origin the source so without

1069
00:48:48,910 --> 00:48:46,250
God it's not it's not possible right my

1070
00:48:50,650 --> 00:48:48,920
opinion so actually I said unless well I

1071
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:50,660
do have one last one final question in

1072
00:48:54,340 --> 00:48:52,880
addition I mean obviously there were a

1073
00:48:56,530 --> 00:48:54,350
couple

1074
00:48:58,510 --> 00:48:56,540
silly questions from the audience which

1075
00:49:00,070 --> 00:48:58,520
I was glad that you ignored because I

1076
00:49:03,490 --> 00:49:00,080
don't think they represented the overall

1077
00:49:04,540 --> 00:49:03,500
attitude how do you feel I mean I don't

1078
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:04,550
know whether you've done something like

1079
00:49:08,290 --> 00:49:06,560
this before but having attended the

1080
00:49:09,940 --> 00:49:08,300
conference like this yesterday was it it

1081
00:49:13,660 --> 00:49:09,950
was again there was definitely a lot of

1082
00:49:16,990 --> 00:49:13,670
arguments against your position but do

1083
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:17,000
you feel that the debate was useful do

1084
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:18,170
you feel that it was big people

1085
00:49:21,130 --> 00:49:19,520
listening do you feel that he was

1086
00:49:23,860 --> 00:49:21,140
respectful enough how do you feel about

1087
00:49:26,830 --> 00:49:23,870
that no I actually I expected that there

1088
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:26,840
will be a stronger position some some

1089
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,730
some arguments were good and the

1090
00:49:33,790 --> 00:49:31,520
questions I like to actually to to talk

1091
00:49:35,950 --> 00:49:33,800
to people with different opposite

1092
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:35,960
opposite views or I have already certain

1093
00:49:42,010 --> 00:49:38,530
experience from from Norway from the

1094
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:42,020
scientific environment from the

1095
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:44,930
scientists that are 80s but some some

1096
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:50,690
people reacted reacted not they didn't

1097
00:49:55,210 --> 00:49:52,850
use argumentation arguments but they

1098
00:49:59,020 --> 00:49:55,220
reacted somehow emotionally or wanted to

1099
00:50:00,730 --> 00:49:59,030
discredit what I what I said so I think

1100
00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:00,740
this is not a proper a proper

1101
00:50:08,050 --> 00:50:03,860
documentation a proper we within let's

1102
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:08,060
say people that talk a lot about science

1103
00:50:12,820 --> 00:50:10,850
and arguments because I had also summer

1104
00:50:13,850 --> 00:50:12,830
girls and tried to put the presentation

1105
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:13,860
in

1106
00:50:18,849 --> 00:50:16,220
[Music]

1107
00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:18,859
okay I think that's that's assigned to

1108
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:20,359
anomalies thank you very much done

1109
00:50:34,540 --> 00:50:32,690
skeptical oh thank you thank you hey

1110
00:50:37,059 --> 00:50:34,550
people tickets are available for the

1111
00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:37,069
skeptics convention dinner that's right

1112
00:50:41,230 --> 00:50:39,380
as part of skeptic on at every stray

1113
00:50:42,190 --> 00:50:41,240
lien skeptic National Convention there's

1114
00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:42,200
a formal dinner

1115
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:44,780
or should I say there is a full dinner

1116
00:50:50,050 --> 00:50:46,970
the social highlight of an already

1117
00:50:53,319 --> 00:50:50,060
highlight full event that's right people

1118
00:50:55,420 --> 00:50:53,329
will be talking and skeptic on 2017 will

1119
00:50:57,250 --> 00:50:55,430
be no exception that's right no

1120
00:50:58,569 --> 00:50:57,260
exception not even you

1121
00:51:01,180 --> 00:50:58,579
the dinner will be held on Saturday

1122
00:51:04,170 --> 00:51:01,190
November 18th that's right

1123
00:51:06,819 --> 00:51:04,180
write that in your calendar right now

1124
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:06,829
yeah I know you having fun it get a

1125
00:51:12,550 --> 00:51:10,490
pencil then okay Saturday November 18th

1126
00:51:15,460 --> 00:51:12,560
at the Sheraton on the park Grand

1127
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:15,470
Ballroom Elizabeth Street Sydney I think

1128
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:16,910
I went out with Lizabeth Street that's

1129
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:19,490
in Elizabeth Street Sydney it promises

1130
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:21,680
to be a grand event in its own right and

1131
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:25,730
its own left but certainly not its own

1132
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:28,130
alt right you know what I'm saying

1133
00:51:32,349 --> 00:51:30,290
you know you go okay you people tough

1134
00:51:33,730 --> 00:51:32,359
crowd the ticketed dinner will cost a

1135
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:33,740
hundred and thirty dollars per person

1136
00:51:39,370 --> 00:51:37,280
and it includes a three-course meal plus

1137
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:39,380
coffee and tea oh well that's worth

1138
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:42,890
around sone all drinks wine beer and

1139
00:51:47,980 --> 00:51:45,770
soft drinks musical entertainment from

1140
00:51:49,319 --> 00:51:47,990
rien scheana Ward winning music producer

1141
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:49,329
and screen composer from New Zealand

1142
00:51:54,660 --> 00:51:52,490
known for his fusion of atmospheric post

1143
00:51:59,170 --> 00:51:54,670
rock with electronic and chamber music

1144
00:52:00,339 --> 00:51:59,180
that sounds dangerous confusion what so

1145
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:00,349
it's get like CERN is it

1146
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:03,410
I'm on era angle well look look this

1147
00:52:08,020 --> 00:52:04,910
this may be an issue for some people

1148
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:08,030
there will be alleged magician comedian

1149
00:52:11,859 --> 00:52:10,250
Eli Baz neck and podcaster from

1150
00:52:14,020 --> 00:52:11,869
god-awful movies and the scathing

1151
00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:14,030
atheist is also known to Australian

1152
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:16,700
customs and you know why the annual

1153
00:52:21,069 --> 00:52:18,650
skeptic award will be announced that's

1154
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:21,079
right the annual skeptic Awards will be

1155
00:52:25,740 --> 00:52:23,710
announced the skeptic of the year

1156
00:52:27,900 --> 00:52:25,750
award for the promotion of reason and

1157
00:52:30,750 --> 00:52:27,910
the least solder for award of the year

1158
00:52:33,930 --> 00:52:30,760
anywhere the bent spoon not to mention

1159
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:33,940
the conviviality and fun of the largest

1160
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:35,530
annual gathering of skeptics in

1161
00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:39,040
Australia and Eli Bostick the Sheraton

1162
00:52:42,450 --> 00:52:40,390
on the park is only a short walk from

1163
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:42,460
the convention venue at the city of

1164
00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:45,010
saddle hall angel plays Sydney all of

1165
00:52:49,410 --> 00:52:47,020
welcome to this kid friendly event

1166
00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:49,420
tickets are available from sceptics calm

1167
00:53:13,910 --> 00:52:52,420
but are you for all your sceptical needs

1168
00:53:17,700 --> 00:53:16,140
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1169
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:17,710
Zen podcast coming up over the next few

1170
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:21,010
weeks more from psych on 2017 from Las

1171
00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:23,440
Vegas where I am right now I look out

1172
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:28,270
the window what do I see bright sunny

1173
00:53:33,450 --> 00:53:30,790
day and I have a view looking into the

1174
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:33,460
middle of the hotel complex here which

1175
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:35,290
isn't very exciting but I can sort of

1176
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:37,390
see the corner out of the corner of the

1177
00:53:42,569 --> 00:53:39,490
view a roller coaster

1178
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:42,579
that's Las Vegas for you a big shout out

1179
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:44,710
to our reporter Maynard who is busily

1180
00:53:49,319 --> 00:53:47,410
preparing for a life bunga bunga in

1181
00:53:52,349 --> 00:53:49,329
Sydney and you can find out more about

1182
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:52,359
that at Maynard comdata you and I hope

1183
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:54,910
to see you at that live performance but

1184
00:53:58,170 --> 00:53:56,710
until next week when I'll be back in

1185
00:54:01,079 --> 00:53:58,180
Sydney Australia this is Richard

1186
00:54:08,010 --> 00:54:01,089
Saunders signing off from Las Vegas

1187
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:08,020
Nevada you've been listening to the

1188
00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:10,720
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1189
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:15,300
website at WWDC be for show notes

1190
00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:18,609
contacts and to access the bat catalog

1191
00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:22,660
of episodes going back to 2008 you can

1192
00:54:27,569 --> 00:54:24,520
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1193
00:54:29,849 --> 00:54:27,579
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1194
00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:29,859
facebook page or leave a review on

1195
00:54:33,420 --> 00:54:30,750
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1196
00:54:37,319 --> 00:54:33,430
you can also support the skeptic zone

1197
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:37,329
via patreon or PayPal you can be part of

1198
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:39,910
the show by downloading the voice byte

1199
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:44,319
app at Voice bite comm and using the

1200
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,680
hashtag skeptic zone the skeptic zone

1201
00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:50,400
podcast is an independent production

1202
00:54:54,930 --> 00:54:52,780
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1203
00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:54,940
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1204
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,250
of Australian skeptics or any other